ISEOST Information >Panelist Questions and Answers
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Throughout the ISEOST Symposium, participants were encouraged to converse with the Project Team, the keynote speaker, and the two sets of panelists. The following questions were submitted to the panelists in writing but, because of time constraints, were not answered at the Symposium itself. These questions have since been compiled and sent to the panelists who, in turn, answered as many as they could or felt qualified to address.
QUESTION #1: What do ISE educators need to know about youth development when they only see a group of youth one time for two hours?
Answer 1A: Research indicates that the more time youth spend in OST programs the more likely they are to yield positive outcomes. However, all adults working with youth, for whatever length of time, could still benefit from understanding the youth development approach vs. the traditional deficit model approach to working with youth. Long-lasting, positive youth-adult relationships can certainly evolve out of limited time spent with youth. The minimum recommended dosage for mentoring is at least once a week for 3-4 hours.
Answer 1B: Youth Development as an approach (not just a program) happens each and every time adults engage with youth, regardless of the duration of time. Adults can and should build assets in youth at every opportunity. Some of these assets are very intentional (such as learning to read for pleasure and/or creating a positive school environment), based on the ISE’s educational content. This may inspire youth to pursue more information on the ISE’s subject. There are also some assets that are by-products of the caring and supportive ISE adult, such as affirming the youth’s sense of self and world through the delivery of the ISE content.
Answer 1C: A shared framework might help ISE educators to develop meaningful programs.
QUESTION #2: What is your experience in developing a college certificate program, how long did it take to develop, and how much did it cost and how did you finance it?
Answer 2A: I was involved in the beginning phases of the start-up of the Community College of Philadelphia (CCP) Youth Worker Certificate Program. This took about a year or two, because a curriculum based on a national training model had to be developed to meet the standards of the college. Fortunately, there was a champion at the college who embraced the idea and helped to advocate for the program; otherwise it could have taken longer to gain the support of the college. The William Penn Foundation initially funded the CCP program – they are strong advocates for youth development training and credentialing.
Answer 2B: The best person to ask is Pete Watkins at CCP.
QUESTION #3: In our ISE-OST collaboration, what learning impacts should we seek for our middle-school students (e.g., environmental activism, improved test scores, inspiration, etc.)? And how should we measure success? What are the implications for professional development?
Answer 3A: The short answer is to support their school work - period. We don’t have to take a divergent path or unique path. Youth learn in multiple ways, and most schools (or individual teachers) are not set up to address all their various learning styles or cultural nuances. What truly makes a difference, from my experience with PRIME, Inc., 4-H Afterschool Programs, and the Cobbs Creek Community Environmental Center, is that OST and ISE inspire youth to see the information presented in the classroom from a different angle, or to see it as more meaningful/relevant through a tangible experience. Here is a radical thought: let’s measure our success by students’ success in school. What else? Surveys show that school/academic success is what matters to parents and teachers. Of cours,e we may not make an absolute direct correlation, because there are other factors involved. However, I have seen more kids succeed in school because they got “turned on” by what they were exposed to during an after-school program or through an ISE presentation. Math and science achievement are still substandard for most low income youth. OST staff could improve youth outcomes by learning more of the techniques of science education from ISE staff. Conversely, ISE could learn more Youth Development approaches (which, in most cases, they practice it but don’t realize it) and integrate this into their curriculum. Cross-training between the two professions also seems viable.
Answer 3B: Stimulate an interest in science-related activities. Encourage involvement in science projects, community activities, tv shows, etc.
QUESTION #4: Can you suggest ways to develop a comprehensive training for staff/colleagues who are resistant to or dismissive of the models, ideas, and values of informal science learning and OST learning (resistant because of change or different from their previous training or current knowledge)?
Answer 4A: Perhaps participation in the BEST Advancing Youth Development (AYD) training would help to provide a broader perspective on youth and the value of OST learning. This could possibly be followed by an informal science learning workshop to demonstrate applicability. For instance, the Center for Youth Development (CYD) has used AYD training as a framework to promote mentoring and provide a context for diffusing conflict, behavior management, classroom management, etc.
Answer 4B: Fire them. Seriously, I don’t waste time or precious funding resources on retraining bad attitudes. Would you go to a doctor who is still using techniques from the 50’s because he or she is resistant to change? No way. Are we (OSTE/ISE) moving toward increased professionalism or are we accepting the status quo? Demand excellence. Expect more. Of course, I understand the financial limitations of direct service compensation - I was there. However, I do not use those limitations as an excuse for stagnate & poor quality of services from our staff to our kids. Change is constant. Management should inspire staff to embrace it, engage it, understand it, and manage it - or find something else. Our kids are too precious, and their potential is too great to expect anything less.
Answer 4C: I suggest a set of subsidized seminars with direct expenses covered and food provided.
QUESTION #5: From your experiences, is there optimal minimum number of hours that young people need to be involved in an activity/experience for it to have impact?
Answer 5A: Research indicates that the ideal amount of time for academic enrichment outcomes is 2 days/week over 12-18 months (Grossman et al. 2002, Raley et al. 2005). For mentoring it is 3-4 hours, 3 times/month for at least one year in community-based programs and 1 hour per week for at least one year for site-based after-school programs (Tierney et al. 2000; Jekielek et al. 2002).
Answer 5B: It’s not the number of hours in the activity - it’s the quality of interaction between youth and adults in the activity.
QUESTION #6: What are your suggestions on recruiting and retaining the older youth? This is very important, especially when they are so much at risk! If possible, suggest books, websites, resources, etc.
Answer 6A: CYD has just completed a publication on engaging older youth and is currently being produced through United Way’s Marketing Department, as we speak. I will forward a copy to OSTRC upon completion and have it posted on the website. It has lots of good information and tips, including references and resources.
Answer 6B: Give them authentic responsibilities, such as coaching and mentoring the younger children.
QUESTION #7: We appreciate the needs of youth development programs for children/teens/staff, etc. But what is the research telling us works—what is new and innovative in this field?
Answer 7A: For older youth, stay tuned for the “Engaging Older Youth” publication that is coming out soon!
QUESTION #8: What do you think is the greatest challenge facing the field of ISE? What is the greatest challenge for OST? Are they similar/different?
Answer 8A: The biggest challenge, in my mind, is recruitment and retention for both fields, especially of older youth.
Answer 8B: ISE’s biggest challenge is reaching and sustaining new and diverse audiences.
QUESTION #9: What do you think the role of government should be in setting and supporting an out-of-school time agenda?
Answer 9A: It is critical for government to play a role in financing and supporting the increase in quality and quantity of available OST programs. The government is currently the largest funding source.
Answer 9B: The government can make resources and information available.
QUESTION #10: In collaborations between ISE and OST, how can professional development ensure the quality of the science content? Are providers able to understand kids’ misconceptions about science, for example?
Answer 10A: Let’s be real and admit that knowing science content takes lots of learning, and we can’t expect OST (or even ISE) professionals to be experts in everything. The trick is knowing where to find good expertise (e.g., books, web, museums, people) and being able to make use of it. As far as science misconceptions are concerned, it’s surprising how many educators (including classroom teachers) don’t really understand that they exist. As a good starting point, I’d suggest reading the research sections in “Benchmarks for Science Literacy” (available on-line)
Answer 10B: Training on science content is critical to the success of OST programs.
Answer 10C: Make sure the trainers are well-trained.
QUESTION #11: Are there one or two models of professional development that you’ve found more effective in taking motivated individuals from novice to competent to expert? About how many hours of professional development is needed for this to occur? For novice to competent/for competent to expert?
Answer 11A: BEST Apprentices and CCP Youth Worker Certificate Programs have been proven to produce competencies and expertise in the field due to classroom learning opportunities (approximately 144 hours) and field/on-the-job practice opportunity (at least 144 hours). BEST AYD training (21-28 hours) also includes content around youth worker competencies.
Answer 11B: This really varies with the domain. It probably takes less time to become an ISE educator than a doctor, but it’s not just a matter of time. Personality, motivation, and direct experience are all important.
QUESTION #12: What are some of the specific developmental needs of middle-school youth? Are there categories or stages that youth workers must be trained in?
Answer 12A: CYD can offer a training on adolescent development and provide instruction on stages of development for this age group.
Answer 12B: Middle-school youth need to be engaged and interested, as there is still a lot of potential to move them in positive directions.
Answer 12C: Rather than deliver a lecture, I’d recommend the National Middle School Association as a good resource. Some book titles I like are Turning Points 2000: Educating Adolescents in the 21st Century and This We Believe: Successful Schools for Young Adolescents. Obviously they all focus on formal schooling, but you will find the background information you need here.
QUESTION #13: What are some of the “mistakes” that can be made when implementing ISE during OST, especially with older youth?
Answer 13A: Programs should be familiar with science content and how to make it fun and engaging in order to recruit and retain older youth.
QUESTION #14: Why are we so quick to disparage formal educators as “sucking the life” out of science education or learning generally? Is there anything we can learn from the formal educators, particularly with respect to professional development?
Answer 14A: We can definitely learn a lot, especially about science content, from formal educators. Formal educators might learn a lot from OST professionals about how to make education fun and how to adapt curriculum for groups that consist of youth with various learning styles and from various cultures.
Answer 14B: We can ask them what professional development experiences have worked well for them.
Answer 14C: Amen. Having worked on both the informal and formal side, I can personally attest to the notion that we have a lot to learn from formal educators. The first step is to stop being so disrespectful! At the Penn Science Teacher Institute, we are in the business of providing long-term, in-depth professional development for teachers. There are no ‘life suckers’ in our programs at the present time, I can assure you.
I have been ruminating on the notion that many scientists chose this field of endeavor because of an out-of-school experience. This doesn’t mean, ergo, that schooling is bad, just that OST offers something different. We should be capitalizing on this idea.
